Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

[FD2]

The only conclusion I have come to during the to and fro of this topic and some others is that extremist views are dividing society in the west down the middle and I can't see a good outcome, as I suspect it will eventually lead to internal conflict and bloodshed. 'Freedom' should not mean being free to act worse than animals - humans being the worst 'animals' on the globe for doing so. Liberty to live our lives as we wish, in peace, sounds a lot better to me.

Maybe a society like that in China or Russia is better for controlling the baser instincts of humans. I must remember also that Russia doesn't have a monopoly on oligarchs and neither side a monopoly on truth.

[TheGreenGoblin]

The only conclusion I have come to during the to and fro of this topic and some others is that extremist views are dividing society in the west down the middle and I can't see a good outcome, as I suspect it will eventually lead to internal conflict and bloodshed. 'Freedom' should not mean being free to act worse than animals - humans being the worst 'animals' on the globe for doing so. Liberty to live our lives as we wish, in peace, sounds a lot better to me.

I must remember also that Russia doesn't have a monopoly on oligarchs and neither side a monopoly on truth.

Well said.

[FD2]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... reens.html I refrain from saying please do this in New Zealand as well.

[TheGreenGoblin]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... reens.html I refrain from saying please do this in New Zealand as well.

If you do, you will only be accused by some of being "anti freedom" or even a proto-fascist FD2.

Mind you, despite being a lover of freedom of the press and right to free speech etc., in times of crisis I don't see any reason to allow an organ of the enemy to sit enjoying the right to spout pernicious propaganda and lies, all the while being protected by our societal rights, mores and laws, while those same rights etc. are not afforded to the citizens in its motherland! We may aspire to being a liberal democracy, but we are not saps!

As I said somewhere earlier, tongue in cheek, it is not as if during WW2, Churchill had invited Lord Haw-Haw to come and spout his lies from broadcasting studios in London!

[FD2]

The ‘truth’ can seem a bit one sided in some countries I agree.

[barkingmad]

The ‘truth’ can seem a bit one sided in some countries I agree.

No change there, then?

Here’s a sideways look at the Ukraine disaster from another small island, albeit one rather cooler than NZ.

Both the article itself and the following comments trail throw up a number of surprising allegations and I’m unsure as to what to make of it but here it is for discussion and critiques;

https://thesaker.is/day-6-mr-president- ... ot-a-joke/.

[Ibbie]

Has anyone else noticed that The State of Israel has been very quite so far on this war.

So has Putin made a huge error yesterday in destroying the Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial in Kyiv yesterday?

[FD2]

The ‘truth’ can seem a bit one sided in some countries I agree.

No change there, then?

Here’s a sideways look at the Ukraine disaster from another small island, albeit one rather cooler than NZ.

Both the article itself and the following comments trail throw up a number of surprising allegations and I’m unsure as to what to make of it but here it is for discussion and critiques;

https://thesaker.is/day-6-mr-president- ... ot-a-joke/.

I think Sleepy Joe confusing Iran and Ukraine will scare the hell out of Putin and Joe's popularity has tanked.

The article isn't just a different view though - it is very slanted - a little like an RT story maybe and rather childishly written. The Icelanders are very insular and I remember reading how anti the Allied Forces they were in WW2, only allowing their presence under sufferance. The comments trail in either left or right wing articles can be ignored I think.

[tango15]

I thought this thread was about Ukraine. Is there not a separate one for tub-thumping about the US? If not, perhaps one should be started, but let's keep this to Ukraine please - it's not like its gone quiet all of a sudden.

[admin2]

I think, inevitably, there is a large link to other governments/nations in this conflict, so as long as this thread does not stray too far from the title I am happy.

What do others think?

[TheGreenGoblin]

I think, inevitably, there is a large link to other governments/nations in this conflict, so as long as this thread does not stray too far from the title I am happy.

What do others think?

+1

Let's not get stuck on the Trump/Biden merry go 'round again!

[Wodrick]

+2..

[TheGreenGoblin]

Has anyone else noticed that The State of Israel has been very quite so far on this war.

So has Putin made a huge error yesterday in destroying the Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial in Kyiv yesterday?

When Russia decided to invade Georgia back in 2008, yes, let's not forget that little war (still simmering), the Israeli's had been supplying advanced weapon systems to the Georgians and refurbishing their air defence systems, the Russians simply told them to get out, and they did!

Both parties have been very wary of each other in Syria, not least because one suspects the Israelis would make short work of the Russian air defences, the A400 missile system not withstanding, but the Israelis don't need a war with countries with the heft of Russia, so a polite avoidance of open conflict has marked their respective adventures in that poor benighted country.


Russo-Georgian War

Russian forces temporarily occupied the Georgian cities of Zugdidi, Senaki, Poti and Gori, holding on to these areas beyond the ceasefire. The South Ossetians destroyed most ethnic Georgian villages in South Ossetia and were responsible for an ethnic cleansing of Georgians. Russia recognised the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia on 26 August and the Georgian government severed diplomatic relations with Russia. Russia mostly completed its withdrawal of troops from undisputed parts of Georgia on 8 October. Russian international relations were largely unharmed. The war displaced 192,000 people and while many returned to their homes after the war, 20,272 people, mostly ethnic Georgians, remained displaced as of 2014. In 2021, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Russia maintained "direct control" over the separatist regions and was responsible for grave human rights abuses taking place there.

Go figure what is going to happen in the Ukraine!

[TheGreenGoblin]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 26704.html

Another one of the deluded!

[PHXPhlyer]

The teenager that tracked Elon Musk’s jet is now tracking Russian oligarchs

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/business ... index.html

Jack Sweeney, a Florida teen who tracks Elon Musk’s private jet online has a new aviation-themed target: Russian oligarchs and billionaires.

The 19-year-old, who rejected Musk’s $5,000 offer to delete his Twitter account, recently launched two new automated Twitter handles — @RUOligarchJets and @Putinjet — following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The two profiles have amassed nearly 300,000 followers combined and provide nearly live updates of the private jets’ movements along with pictures of maps locating them.

Sweeney told the Wall Street Journal that people have long been telling him to start Twitter accounts like this, and those requests ramped up after sanctions took aim at Russia’s richest.

Russia’s oligarchs face economic chaos at home and punishment by the West after President Vladimir Putin ordered his troops into Ukraine. The United States and its allies have responded by sanctioning wealthy individuals who are close to the Kremlin.

Some of the jets tracked by the accounts include Chelsea Football Club owner Roman Abramovich, businessman Alisher Usmanov and Leonid Mikhelson, the billionaire chairman of Russian gas producer Novatek.

In an interview with Bloomberg, Sweeney said he was stunned by the size of planes the Russian oligarchs use.

“The aircrafts these oligarchs have are absolutely crazy,” Sweeney said. The country’s richest are traveling on commercial-sized aircrafts like an Airbus A319 and Boeing 737. “Their planes are huge compared to other jets.”

In total, the accounts track more than 40 planes and helicopters linked to Russian oligarchs. He has invited others to help bolster the amount of planes that can be tracked.

Sweeney’s Twitter account tracking Musk is still live. He told Journal that he’d delete it only in exchange for a new Tesla Model 3.

PP

[FD2]

A Tale of Two Wars


No paywall here:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60571737

[TheGreenGoblin]

The Ghost of Kyiv: A Legend Born of Social Media, But Is He Real?

[prospector]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national ... hp&pc=U531

"That will probably mean Ukraine will need to accept it is a neutral country. It doesn’t want to be in a recreated Warsaw Pact with Russia, but it probably can’t ever be in Nato either. It is a classic buffer state, where great power interests are either side of it: it is the meat in the sandwich, and when Russia has felt the buffer’s gone, that’s when it’s gotten very, very angry.

“I can’t as I sit here see a best-case where Ukraine is able to say, ‘We’ll join what we want and do what we want’. That’s probably unrealistic.”

That from a very well qualified to comment ladies opinion.

TGG, Your attention is drawn to post 779 re thr ghost, if it is true he would appear to be a real ghost now

[FD2]

More western propaganda - the Telegraph is claiming that Putin has barred anyone leaving the country with more than $10,000. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... mir-putin/

If this photo is real and not photo shopped the number of destinations looks a bit limited. There's always China or North Korea waiting with open arms - they are said to approve of the military 'liberation' manoeuvres.

departure board.png (630.99 KiB) Viewed 315 times

[TheGreenGoblin]

The Russians continue their provocation of Japan in the Kuril Islands

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 27082.html