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Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:15 pm
by Rwy in Sight
FD2 thanks for the explanation.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:15 pm
by Ex-Ascot
I am sure that I signed the F700 on the flight deck after a walk around by the non operating pilot. Also by the Flt Eng.
Once took off with the pitot tube cover on I think the Islander. My fault. Had to land straight away of course.
In transport command the F700 was kept on the aircraft which I thought was a bit odd. What if you crashed burned and died with it? No tech record.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:55 pm
by Pontius Navigator
ExA, remember the Traveller? I thought a copy of your 700 sign off was left on the ground and only destroyed after safe arrival.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:18 am
by G-CPTN
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:52 am
by FD2
£100m F-35 fighter jet crashed into the Med while taking off from HMS Queen Elizabeth because the cheap rain cover hadn't been taken off properly, investigators fear
£100m F-35 jet may have crashed because a cheap rain cover was not removed
Sailors said they saw the cover floating in the Mediterranean after the accident
A race underway to recover the aircraft's sunken wreckage after Sunday's crash
By Lauren Lewis For Mailonline
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... n-off.html
Published: 12:03 AEDT, 24 November 2021 | Updated: 12:11 AEDT, 24 November 2021
Investigators fear a £100million F-35 fighter jet crashed into the Mediterranean while taking off because the cheap rain covers had not been taken off properly.
Officials believe the rain cover was sucked into the F-35B Lightning II stealth plane's engine as it took off from the flight deck of the HMS Queen Elizabeth, forcing the pilot to eject.
Naval personnel reported seeing the cover floating in the sea nearby Britain's flagship aircraft carrier after the accident in the Mediterranean on Sunday.
Sources said the RAF pilot realised the issue and tried to abort take-off but was unable to stop the plane before the end of the ship's runway.
The UK was on Tuesday working with the US and Italy to recover the aircraft, believed to be more than a mile below the surface, amid fears Russia would try salvage the wreckage to uncover secret tech onboard.
Sources told the Sun naval personnel realised the issue 'almost right away' because rules around removing covers and engine blanks before flights are 'incredibly strict'.
'The ground crew do it and they are incredibly strict. Then the pilot walks round.'
The Ministry of Defence has insisted 'no hostile action' was involved in the crash and on Sunday evening said the investigation was focusing on technical or human error.
After he ejected, the pilot was reportedly left dangling from the edge of the HMS Queen Elizabeth because the lines of his parachute became caught on the edge of the flight deck.
The pilot, who suffered minor injuries, is understood to have been rescued by helicopter. The pilot's family was informed of the crash before military chiefs released a statement yesterday afternoon about the incident.
Looks like a sort of combined f*ck up - 'Per Ardua Ad Mare' for the pilot so to speak, ably assisted by the ground crew. Does the 'Dam Busters' 617 Squadron have light blue ground crew as well?
As I pointed out earlier, there's nothing to gloat about, no matter the colour of their uniforms. There will be a whole lot of sh*t hitting various fans over this and the pilot - (Navy in the Sun and RAF in the Mail) will probably have his service flying career cut short. That's a great pity after getting through so many tests and hurdles to get as far as he did.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:31 am
by Boac
Would the pilot be invited to appear on 'Blankety Blank'?
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:49 am
by G-CPTN
The incident (which cannot be classified as an accident - but negligence) highlights the need for greater diligence.
An expensive incident.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:00 pm
by FD2
'Leaked' footage shows the aircraft isn't accelerating as it should. Ejection at the top of the ski jump. Looks like the parachute caught on the edge of the ski jump, luckily, or he would be right in front of the bow.
From this Telegraph article which contains the link to Twatter:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/1 ... o-reveals/
Includes link:
In case this doesn't connect to Twatter, use this link and add an 'h' at the front:
ttps://twitter.com/sebh1981/status/1465351592018956295
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:17 pm
by PHXPhlyer
A millisecond longer and he would be fish food.
As it was the cockpit was starting to have an off-vertical, ie. forward, angle.
PP
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:10 am
by Pontius Navigator
Something to be said for angled flight decks.
I wonder if the aircraft sank quickly enough or whether the carrier hit it.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:49 am
by Boac
Shame it wasn't! I'd like to see pictures of the bow. The pilot was said to have 'cut free' when he was hooked - I think I would have thought 3 times before doing that. I think there is a need to be able to inhibit the auto ejection system.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:15 am
by FD2
Your wish...
- HMS QE bow.png (670.64 KiB) Viewed 854 times
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:35 am
by Boac
Many thanks, FD, but not quite what I was looking for.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:44 am
by Boac
I am unaware of the way an F35B does a STO on or off the ski-jump. In the bona-jet. one worked out the 'nozzle speed' using the whizz-wheel computer, gave the jet full welly and at the pre-computed speed whacked the nozzles down to the calculated angle and committed aviation (as an 'aviator', of course). I understand the F35B has an 'automatic' mode for doing this 'nozzling'. The leaked video is puzzling since I could be convinced that the nozzle is 'down' at the start of the run which would seriously dent one's ability to so commit?
I would have expected two V speeds for ski-jump use - Vgo and Vstop!
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:39 pm
by TheGreenGoblin
Boac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:44 am
I am unaware of the way an F35B does a STO on or off the ski-jump. In the bona-jet. one worked out the 'nozzle speed' using the whizz-wheel computer, gave the jet full welly and at the pre-computed speed whacked the nozzles down to the calculated angle and committed aviation (as an '
aviator', of course). I understand the F35B has an 'automatic' mode for doing this 'nozzling'. The leaked video is puzzling since I could be convinced that the nozzle is 'down' at the start of the run which would seriously dent one's ability to so commit?
I would have
expected two V speeds for ski-jump use - Vgo and Vstop!
As you say Boac, that video seems to show that as the aircraft was rolling, it looked like the pilot attempted to change the nozzle position and tilt it rearward, possibly in a final attempt to increase the forward thrust and increase airspeed!
If the cover story is factual, then which engine ingested it? Whatever the case, if this detail is correct, then multiple crew, including the pilot, failed to notice the cover which I find hard to credit. A safety process failure whatever the case!
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:42 pm
by Boac
Only 1 engine, two separate intake systems.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:44 pm
by TheGreenGoblin
Boac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:42 pm
Only 1 engine, two separate intake systems.
You are on fire today.
Thanks for the correction. I should have said which inlet/intake ingested the cover.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:46 pm
by Boac
No knowledge, but I would have expected the lift intake to just use the big flappy bit on top and not need a separate blank.
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:58 pm
by TheGreenGoblin
I was looking around for some more detail on the engine, intake arrangement.
- f35-engine-2 (1).jpg (107.31 KiB) Viewed 826 times
The STOVL variation of the F-35, to be used by the US Marine Corps and UK Royal Navy, used Lockheed Martin’s patented Rolls-Royce LiftSystem, developed by Rolls-Royce.
“The F135 team responsible for the development of the engine consists of Pratt & Whitney, Rolls-Royce and Hamilton Sundstrand.”
Composed of a lift fan, drive shaft, two roll posts and a 3 Bearing Swivel Module (3BSM), the system is responsible for allowing the vertical lift-off required to operate aboard some aircraft carriers.
The 3BSM acts as a thrust vectoring nozzle, allowing the exhaust to be directed downwards to enable vertical lift-off. The lift fan, located towards the front of the aircraft, acts as a counterbalance by using two counter-rotating blisks.
Unheated engine bypass air is then diverted through nozzles mounted on the wings of the aircraft, called roll posts, in order to allow roll control.
The system is capable of handling 18,000lbf of dry thrust through the 3BSM, 20,000lbf through the lift fan and a further 3,900lbf through both roll posts, totalling 41,900lbs of thrust. The system, developed purposefully for the F-35 programme, received the Collier Trophy for achievements in aeronautics in 2001.
https://www.airforce-technology.com/fea ... -analysis/
Re: British F35B down in the Med
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:06 pm
by Boac
blisks - new word! I have to say I will always be a fan..............