60 years of attack-free peace

[rgbrock1]

So true, RGB. I spent the last week of August in the Shenandoah region of Virginia, vacationing with friends, including a full day at Jefferson's Monticello. All the while I was reading the Jefferson bio you gave me. It was exquisite.

Reflecting on how the words of Jefferson you quote are as applicable today as they were 240 years ago. He was truly a brilliant specimen of mankind, and how blessed we were that he was one of us.

The Shenadoah Valley region of Virginia is exquisitely beautiful. (It's also an area not only loved by Jefferson but one which George Washington surveyed extensively as a youth.)

I've been to Monticello but once. (As well as Mount Vernon). I endeavor to visit again in the near future and with our impending move to SC (Georgetown) next year, the revisit becomes more doable.

[BenThere]

He had quite a perch at Monticello, sitting on top of the mountain with a 100 mile view of the lush, green ridges and valleys below, as far as the eye can see.

As one who appreciates gardening, nature and wide open spaces, I think he created a paradise there at Monticello.

[rgbrock1]

He had quite a perch at Monticello, sitting on top of the mountain with a 100 mile view of the lush, green ridges and valleys below, as far as the eye can see.

As one who appreciates gardening, nature and wide open spaces, I think he created a paradise there at Monticello.

Indeed he did create such an environment. Just as General Washington created his vision of a "personal utopia" at Mount Vernon, with its panoramic views of the Potomac River.

[Octopussy2]

Coincidentally, I'm reading "The Hemingses of Monticello" at the moment - I think it's going to take a while as it's so detailed (more library fines, sigh) but it's jolly interesting.

[BenThere]

Just curious, Octopussy2, as to how you would be interested in this obscure aspect of Americana.

I'm not being critical, as you might understand given my fetish for the knives of Laguiole.

[Octopussy2]

Ben I don't understand why you describe it as "obscure"? Jefferson is a major historic figure, no? And I admit my knowledge of American history isn't as good as I would like. I've read previously about the War of Independence, not so much about the Civil War (I'm not sure watching "Gone with the Wind" counts ), a bit about the history of New York, but there are lots of gaps in my knowledge still to be filled.

The library I belong to here is actually in the American church - they open on Sunday and they're a stone's throw away from our church, so we usually pop in afterwards. So a fair number of the books are published in the US. The one I was reading before this was about a chap crossing America in a covered wagon, with a team of mules, retracing the steps of those heading west in the 1840's. Again, good stuff, highly recommended!

[BenThere]

Octopussy2, I can only commend your inquisitiveness, particularly as I assume you are native to the vicinity of Geneva.

I'm currently reading an extensive biography of Jefferson given to me by RGBrock. In it, the Hemmings family comes across as the right hand backbone of Monticello. Jefferson promised his wife of ten years, who died in her thirties, on her deathbed, that he would not remarry. He stuck to that but it is generally acknowledged that Sally Hemmings, a slave, became his lifetime concubine.

[Octopussy2]

I'm English actually. I just live here.

Yes and Sally Hemmings was the half-sister of his wife, Martha (they shared the same father). It actually gets confusing trying to remember who everyone is. Who is the author of your biography? (I may expand my reading around this).

Apologies for the thread drift...

[BenThere]

The book is Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power by Jon Meecham

[BenThere]

I just picked up another book that I'm reading concurrently with the Jefferson book. My new book is over 2000 pages and I've read about 75. It's The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd Edition.

I'm not a practicing member of any church, but I recognize there is so much history, culture, and general tapestry of life in the Bible that I have not known, though I was raised in the Methodist church, probably with a rigor most of you can't imagine - my father was the preacher. So when I left home at 18 and went of to college, I figured that I'd already had all the church I needed for a lifetime and hardly ever went back.

But I was watching coverage of Donald Trump's visit to a Detroit African-American church a week or two ago. The pastor of this large and influential church in ghetto Detroit presented Trump with the Jewish Study Bible, gushing about it, along with a Jewish prayer shawl. So I looked into the tome and bought it on Amazon. It is an amazing and treasured find. The layout is a modern narrative of the bible, printed on the central portion of every page, with supporting documentation, factoids, controversies, etc., printed on the margin. It reads like a novel. I'm so glad I found it and look forward to fleshing out my biblical and historical knowledge by a means I never could have utilized with traditional bibles or commentaries, which tend to put me to sleep within 10 minutes of picking them up. I just read the story of Noah in this format. What a treat!

[Chuks]

There's a lot of rather superficial interest in Judaism, a sort of cultural appropriation. For instance, the pop star Madonna is a follower of Kabbalism, a sort of Jewish hocus-pocus that contains rather little that is of spiritual value, in my opinion.

I would be highly skeptical of a black Christian church handing out a tallit to Donald Trump. I do not understand the logic of doing that. The Study Bible on the other hand, I guess I need to have a look at; it sounds very interesting.

I have been using the King James Bible as my basic source of information about Christianity, often in a sort of "know your enemy" way, but of course it's a rather limited text. Wonderful language, though!

[BenThere]

I have so much respect for Jews and the Jewish faith. Jews have achieved the highest levels of competence, innovation and advancement in every field. Jews have held to their humanity in Israel despite the unbelievable hostility they have faced since the founding of Israel.

Jews are a treasure of humanity that much of humanity does not recognize or appreciate. But I do.

And finally, Jews are holding the line against the virulence, hatred, and nihilism of Jihad Islam and the soldiers of Hamas and Hezbollah.

It just baffles me how so many in the West, including in my enclave in Ann Arbor, home of the University of Michigan, a highly regarded font of knowledge, can show up on the streets, regaling us with the glory of Islam and the evil of Israel. This is insanity.

[Lone Ranger]

I just picked up another book that I'm reading concurrently with the Jefferson book. My new book is over 2000 pages and I've read about 75. It's The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd Edition.

I'm not a practicing member of any church, but I recognize there is so much history, culture, and general tapestry of life in the Bible that I have not known, though I was raised in the Methodist church, probably with a rigor most of you can't imagine - my father was the preacher. So when I left home at 18 and went of to college, I figured that I'd already had all the church I needed for a lifetime and hardly ever went back.

But I was watching coverage of Donald Trump's visit to a Detroit African-American church a week or two ago. The pastor of this large and influential church in ghetto Detroit presented Trump with the Jewish Study Bible, gushing about it, along with a Jewish prayer shawl. So I looked into the tome and bought it on Amazon. It is an amazing and treasured find. The layout is a modern narrative of the bible, printed on the central portion of every page, with supporting documentation, factoids, controversies, etc., printed on the margin. It reads like a novel. I'm so glad I found it and look forward to fleshing out my biblical and historical knowledge by a means I never could have utilized with traditional bibles or commentaries, which tend to put me to sleep within 10 minutes of picking them up. I just read the story of Noah in this format. What a treat!

Strange that you make out Judaism is something newly discovered to you Ben, why lie about your faith?

[BenThere]

Lone Ranger,

I have never professed Judaism as my faith, but I am increasingly drawn to it.

I actually have been considering an alignment with Judaism as I think that's where may greatest affinity lies. But I have not lied about my faith. I promise I will never lie to you unless I can benefit from it.

Seriously, though, the lessons of thousands of years should be considered.

And if you read the Bible you get the message that time after time when the people turn from God bad things happen. I think we are in an era where we have collectively turned from God. Bad things are going to happen.

[500N]

Ben

So tell me, what will turning to god do to change the situation ?


I think of peace, god loving Obama and it doesn't seem to have done him much good,
I would even go so far to say his thought process has made him ineffective.

[BenThere]

I don't think we can achieve it on a culture-wide scale, 500N. There are just too many takers and not enough givers. Turning to God is a total commitment today's culture will not make until it appears all is lost. I'm afraid we are going to have to go through that, probably over the next 50 years. Enjoy!

[BenThere]

Giving the question a little bit more thought, 500N, to revert our culture to a God loving Biblical Eden again would require such a massive realignment that it can't happen without a catastrophic conflict. The question mark is whether that inevitable conflict will result in the victory of Christian Love or Islamic Hate.

[Chuks]

Fire and Ice

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

Robert Frost

Don't forget to add Christian Hate and Islamic Love to the mix, along with many other things, Ben.

[BenThere]

Point me in the direction of Islamic Love and I'll get behind it. I have not seen it, yet. And before you thrust your example upon me, make sure it doesn't exclude Jews from its benevolence.

Also, to Hate as you posted, is not Christian. Jesus was free of Hate. Islam never had that cleansing benefit.

[500N]

We'll see what happens when Islamic hate really gets going and whether the huggy fluffy
west "takes the gloves off and takes it up to" them.'