National Service (the one Sunak wants)

[probes]

Under a bombshell plan, unveiled by the Prime Minister in an article for The Mail on Sunday, school-leavers would be obliged to spend a year in a full-time Armed Forces role or volunteering with organisations such as the police or NHS.

(DW)

Me, as a non-native, was surprised there isn't any, hasn't been that is. So, how 'bombshell' is the plan?

[Boac]

Started 1947, finished (with 2 years conscription) in 1960.

[G-CPTN]

It might be preferable to 'enlist' youngsters into 'work' - if only as baristas.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Current human rights laws give the government no possible means of dealing with non-co-operation.
It would simply be providing free food and accommodation.

[Hydromet]

I don't think much of compulsory national service, but having said that, I know many for whom our previous systems provided unexpected benefits in the way of training and opportunities to get out of small-town existences. For one friend, it was an opportunity to get off the farm that his father was running into the ground and earn some money of his own for the first time. However if there is to be compulsory national service, it must be for everyone in the age group.
What I would like to see is for anyone who plans to go to university to have to spend a year in the full-time workforce first. D1 did that in her 'gap' year, she worked in a newsagent. At that time it entitled her to a student assistance payment when she went to uni. it also convinced her that she really wanted to go to uni, and also helped her to get a part-time job when she went to uni. It may also help others to decide that a trade or some other profession is better for them.

[llondel]

I wonder how they would have dealt with me, given that aged 18-20 I had two major operations (problem showed before I left school) and wouldn't have been fit enough to do most of what they wanted. I guess I could have sat at a desk and typed in reports. I guess I was volunteering for the NHS, but as a patient.

[G-CPTN]

I believe there was a 'medical' and some were rejected because of 'flat feet'.

Flat feet.

[Rossian]

There was a chap who graduated as a Licenciate of the Royal Academy of Music who, when asked at the National Service enrolment place "Wot can you do then son?" replied "I can play the piano rather beautifully along with many other instruments"
Musing to himself "Music, um, music. Music's got tones innit?" "It certainly does and....." "Chinese is a tonal language you will be a Chinese interpreter - next" And so he became a Chinese interpreter and sat in the back of a Varsity trolling up and down beside the border listening to whatever they listened to.
He was looking at the sergeant pilot and thought "I'll bet he can't play the piano or any other instrument and he can't speak Chinese AND he's being paid a shed load more than me as an SAC. I wanna be aircrew".
And after an interview in Singapore and an aptitude test or two he went to Hornchurch. Where he was accepted as an aircrew cadet and it was decided (because he was good at tones and Morse is tones) he went to Hullavington and trained as an AEO destined for the V-force. After a longish tour he came to Topcliffe as an instructor which is where I met him.
And that children is a true story. Is National Service a productive system?

The Ancient Mariner

[1DC]

I was in the Merchant Navy so I didn't go but two of my mates went in together. One was a Baker and asked to go in baking the other was a motor mechanic and asked to go in transport. I think they both went in the infantry.

[probes]

And that children is a true story. Is National Service a productive system?
The Ancient Mariner

What a story!
No doubt the system's needed! - for people to discover their hidden talents?

[G-CPTN]

One was a Baker and asked to go in baking the other was a motor mechanic and asked to go in transport. I think they both went in the infantry.

Broadening their skills.

[ExSp33db1rd]

..............and asked to go in transport.

At my initial medical I approached the RAF lot and asked if they would take me instead of the Army and put me in their photographic unit, because I had just completed an appenticeship as a commercial photographer, and if I was to waste 2 years of my life I might as well do something that I liked and might even learn more skills to apply to my eventual career ?

They said that they would indeed take me, but if I wanted to join the photo. unit then I must sign on for 10 years ! I politely, or maybe not too politely, told them what to do with that idea, and then they said " How about becoming a pilot ? " ROTFL and when I picked myself up said that if it was 10 years to be a pilot, it must be a life sentence to become a pilot ?

They then explained that Canada's contribution to NATO was to train pilots from all the NATO airforces, and although the UK had their own adequate training facilities, they were obliged to send so many a year to Canada regardless, and needed Cannon Fodder so to speak, why not have a go ?

Returning from Canada I decided that I quite liked this flying game and applied for the life sentence, but the then Defence Minister, Duncan Sandys, said Pxxs Off, or words to that effect, the next war would be fought by rockets, not pilots flying aeroplanes and the RAF now had too many pilots. This coincided with BOAC recruiting young pilots to train as pilot/navigators and as a result I subsequently retired at age 60 as a 747 Training Captain! Thank you British Taxpayer, National Service did me a favour.

[bob2s]

Australian National Service.
National Service was reintroduced during the Vietnam War by a ballot system of selecting a date from a barrel, then, if your birthday fell on the
dates from the ballot it was off for a medical to ensure you were ok to be sent to Vietnam. This was the only time in my life when I had won something, I did not make the grade as I was recovering from a severe case of Black Water Fever, (Malaria, where your urine turns dark red or
black ) so there was no way they were going to take me when they had about 500 others to choose from. The ballot system went from 65 to 72
when the National Service was again shut down. Every now and then some politicians raise the the idea that it should be reinstated, but that
seems to die a natural death in a couple of weeks after the news moves on.

[llondel]

I think most professional armies want willing, highly trained volunteers, not conscripts. If the army has to copy with 700,000 teenagers, most of whom don't really want to be there, when the regular army is a tenth of that size, it's likely to have adverse effects.

[Hydromet]

Most of the conscripts in the last round of Australian National Service were of Anglo or European descent, as our population mix was quite different to now. If you were a student or doing any sort of vocational training you could defer until you completed your course. I'm told that if you really didn't want to be called up it was easy to do - I did so by joining the regular army before it was my turn in the barrel - but supposedly it was relatively easy to find a doctor who would say you had acne on your back or flat feet. From the contemporaries I knew within and outside the army, most looked forward to it, and once in, there was very little, if any difference between 'nashos' and regs. Some national servicemen attained commissions as 2nd Lieutenants, and a few of them remained in after their term of NS ended. I think the highest rank attained by one in the regular army was Brigadier, although at the time, only Duntroon (think West Point or Sandhurst equivalent) graduates could progress past Major. Of course, many attained NCO rank and stayed on, as had happened in the previous period of NS during the Korean war.

I believe that, without doubt, national service was good for the army. After WW II & Korea, Australia was a place of high employment, where almost anyone who wanted a job could get one. Those who stayed in the army seemed to be in one of two groups - Professionals who were building careers and were, by and large, excellent soldiers, and others who were institutionalised or saw the army as a cosy berth where they could get a regular wage and not have to do too much thinking or hard work if you stayed out of sight, and were experts at doing so. Many things were done' the army way' because that was the way it had always been done.

When NS came in, many national servicemen had been in the workforce for four or five years, or had been undertaking tertiary studies for almost as long. In the year I went in, there were many teachers (who felt that the ballot had been rigged). In a rapidly expanding army, it's a big advantage to have an educated group whom you can train quickly then set loose to train others. Also, many nashos could see the stupidity of some of the old and pointless "make work" ways and weren't afraid to say so - "What are you going to do - sack me?". They were also often more innovative than the regs because of their work experience, and this rubbed off on the regs, especially the professionals.

Would national service now have the same effect? I doubt it. Firstly, from what I've seen the present Army is much better trained and educated at all levels than it was when NS was introduced in 1965. Also, I'm not sure that it would be welcomed naw ans it was then, by the participants.

[ricardian]

After RAF Boy Entrant training 1959-61 I was posted to RAF Driffield where I met half a dozen National Servicemen who were coming to the end of their stint. One had been involved in design work for British Leyland and was an MT mechanic so the Sgt i/c MT servicing put him on all the most difficult jobs where bad design made simple jobs difficult. I hope that his philosophy lead to some improvements in vehicle design. Another Nasho was a JnrTech Ground Wireless Fitter - in civilian life he had been involved in military jet engine development at Rolls-Royce.

[John Hill]

I joined the Civil Aviation Board as a school leaver and about a dozen of us were given temporary enlistment (48 weeks) in the Air Force for training as telegraphists. My number did come up in the 18 year olds' compulsory training ballot but of course I was excused having already been in the military. Morse Code was still the only communications available at a few isolated airports in NZ and South Pacific islands and I was more than happy to go to those places where I enjoyed whatever experiences were available to me. What I learned in those years, plus a bit of study, set me up for a career related to aviation and I can confidently state that nobody ever saw me do a honest day's work in all those years and now the pension allows us to live in comfort!

One could perhaps more correctly say that my comfortable existence was founded during that year wearing Betty Windsor's blues.